tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28154988.post686705786383443848..comments2024-03-26T01:59:52.206-04:00Comments on Just outside: Brian Olewnickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08567239067604835372noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28154988.post-64116465809686642372007-07-27T12:45:00.000-04:002007-07-27T12:45:00.000-04:00"But if you've chosen to push things, if you're ou..."But if you've chosen to push things, if you're out there advertising your work as "free", well dammit, it should be free. And forty plus years on, there's no excuse for not understanding "free" to mean exactly what it says. It doesn't mean a hierarchy of musicians, a hierarchy of solo order (it doesn't mean solos being obligatory at all!). It doesn't mean constructing a situation where you can't do this and you can't do that, no matter how much musical sense it makes at the time. It doesn't mean you can't stop playing when you have nothing to add. It doesn't mean that when the bassist starts soloing, the drummer automatically reverts to cymbal tapping mode while the horn players look on (they can't play of course! that's against the rules!) and the pianist dutifully punches out a handful of appropriate chords...."<BR/><BR/>Well. I guess playing free isn't "free," in any number of senses. Clearly, to be "free," one must follow the rules laid down by the critics. One must avoid traditional aspects in every single regard, which is universally recognized as the very definition and embodiment of freedom. Maybe they shouldn't even play reed, brass or percussion instruments. Otherwise, they're just like Wynton. Right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28154988.post-38496778361714362632007-06-27T10:45:00.000-04:002007-06-27T10:45:00.000-04:00What's out, what's not. What's free. What's not.In...What's out, what's not. What's free. What's not.<BR/><BR/>In the end, I don't care, really. I like to listen to free jazz because I like to listen to it. I can say exactly the same for eai or AMM music.<BR/><BR/>If free jazz is still played more or less the way it's been played since the 60s, I like it anyway because I like to listen to it. I haven't any other requirement for liking music.<BR/><BR/>I like listening to eai, too, because I like to hear it.<BR/><BR/>In the end, it's all arranged sound, music. We find it an enjoyable experience or we don't.<BR/><BR/>Any other considerations are almost necessarily extramusical. They may be interesting subjects but in the end, we listen to the music we like, because we like it.<BR/><BR/>Sounds in the air. Nothing more. Nothing less.Gary Siscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14783687775644985682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28154988.post-10097916724537100272007-06-27T00:00:00.000-04:002007-06-27T00:00:00.000-04:00But it's one thing on a personal level, another wh...<I>But it's one thing on a personal level, another when there's the sense of strictures on a group level, at least for myself.</I><BR/><BR/>What exactly is this separation between individual/group that you seem to be gesturing towards in your construction of "freedom"? Is freedom the freedom of the individual? Can there be a freedom of the group? What happens to freedom when one makes the decision to conform to these "strictures," as you call them? Is that less free? Why? <BR/><BR/>I found your post interesting because I have never really looked at the failure of jazz (and I do think it has failed, or rather, is dying) in terms of <I>freedom</I>, and neither can I say that my interest in taomud is related to freedom. <BR/><BR/>I guess, hardened cynic that I am, I just don't put much stock in the idea of freedom itself. It seems to me to be an ideal not worth attaining. But I will have to think about it some more. Your thoughtful post has stirred my mind a bit. I agree with the above poster...more rants!DCJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02299863104159338422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28154988.post-71232958424862875572007-06-26T16:25:00.000-04:002007-06-26T16:25:00.000-04:00Hi Brian, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter...Hi Brian, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. I certainly think this is a good dialog to engage in, and your clarifications help to frame your earlier comments for me. As someone who has a huge blind spot in the EAI as well as the AMM end of things, I'm sure your perspective on free is quite a bit different from mine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28154988.post-22396118907328675942007-06-26T10:18:00.000-04:002007-06-26T10:18:00.000-04:00…Forty plus years on, there's no excuse for not un...<I>…Forty plus years on, there's no excuse for not understanding “free” to mean exactly what it says.</I><BR/><BR/>Except “free” means several different (maybe contradictory) things. One of the points of mutual incomprehension (and creative misunderstandings) between, say, white European and black American improvisers was, to some extent, encapsulated in that word: what is it that you are free from? emancipated from?<BR/>I also wonder how if there’s another way to think about the characteristics you’re talking about <I>as</I> barriers to freedom (“strictures”, “crutches” or “security blankets”) without framing them as such.<BR/><BR/><I>It [“free”] doesn't mean a hierarchy of musicians….</I><BR/><BR/>Although, ironically enough, in order to make that statement you’re suggesting there is a hierarchy of freedom—some practices more free than others ;-)<BR/><BR/><I>End of rant.</I><BR/><BR/>A rant, maybe, but it was an instructive/illuminating one. (More rants!)<BR/><BR/>S, tigthe improvising guitaristhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07517613086214719180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28154988.post-31132043113454652502007-06-26T09:03:00.000-04:002007-06-26T09:03:00.000-04:00Well, certainly many of them aren't, using a gener...Well, certainly many of them aren't, using a general definition of the term. But, of course, we'd have to qualify what "free" is. In the (loose?) sense I'm using it, your average AMM recording would fit comfortably under the term, maybe more so the earlier ones than the later, something like "The Crypt". <BR/><BR/>This is all not to deny that everyone has their own set of restrictions, that (say) Tilbury is unlikely to explode into Cecil Taylorisms, etc. But it's one thing on a <I>personal</I> level, another when there's the sense of strictures on a group level, at least for myself.Brian Olewnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08567239067604835372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28154988.post-87502756074320441902007-06-26T01:26:00.000-04:002007-06-26T01:26:00.000-04:00I don't think taomud related recordings are really...I don't think taomud related recordings are really "free" either.DCJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02299863104159338422noreply@blogger.com